108 vs 110 lobe separation10 marca 2023
So, which is better? Moreover, a user from the Chevelle forum said. 06 The ported heads featured a 2.165/1.590-inch valve combo. As you can see in the graph, the 101 LSA cam actually had the highest cranking compression of the batch: 185 psi. I forgot to add that poor vacuum is not much of a concern to me because I have no power accessories. Good luck. Aeromotive; 913.647.7300; AeromotiveInc.com, AFR Heads; 661.257.8124; AirFlowResearch.com, Federal Mogul/Felpro; 248.354.7700; FederalMogul.com, Mahle; 248.347.9700; Mahle-Aftermarket.com, Scat Enterprises; 310.370.5501 ScatEnterprises.com, SuperFlow Dynamometers and Flow Benches; 515.254.1654; SuperFlow.com. A forum community dedicated to Ford performance owners and enthusiasts. by bigjoe1 Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:48 pm, Post I'm surprized at these questions as well as some of the replies. " its got a 3.73 posi and the Stock 4 speed with a very low 3.42 1st gear. by bug1914 Tue May 13, 2003 2:56 am, Post Walter Noah is a process engineer who has a knack for resolving even the toughest technical issue. It is possible to advance and retard the timing events, but the distance between the centerline of the lobes will remain constant. Tests have shown that, for a given cam profile, a tighter (smaller) lobe center will produce more average horsepower and a quicker revving engine. Topping the short-block was a set of Chevrolet Performance CNC LS3 heads from Gandrud Chevrolet. Let's just talk lobe sep angle. by SStrokerAce Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:38 pm, Post We will safeguard your e-mail and only send content you request. LSA is a result of valve timing events. Powerband serves a massive contribution to the acceleration car. Hey guys, can anyone tell me how rough of a idle a cam would be with a 108 lobe separation? See all 14 photos 13 The three power curves indicate that the wide (120-degree). 106 LSA: At this LSA, the car machine has to confront the reduction of idle vacuum rate quite often. 04 Minor modifications to the factory windage tray were necessary to work with the new stroker assembly. It affects the powerband and temperament of a motor more than any other single part, and a slight change can turn a car from a mild-tempered grocery-getter to a downright nasty machine. It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong. dur. Lobe Separation Angle "LSA "Jump to Latest Follow 1 - 17 of 17 Posts . A commonly held misconception is that intake/exhaust overlap contributes to lower cranking compression. Unfortunately, good street manners are often at odds with performance, as wilder cam timing usually decreases idle and (low-speed) driveability. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. But nothing comes without a cost, and idle vacuum suffers as LSA shrinks. The LSA, or lobe separation angle, is ground into the cam and cannot be changed. 110 LSA: The 110 LSA shows up mechanically advantageous in mechanical aspects like higher RPM, lower engine knock, moderate cylinder pressure, improved idle vacuum, and higher piston-to-valve clearance. any input is appreciated guys, thanks. NOTE: Classic Inlines stocks the above profiles in 108, 110, and 112 lobe centers. Thanks. Introduction. To overcome this inherent problem in wide LSA camshafts, you simply need a higher-flowing intake port. by Paul H Tue May 13, 2003 1:24 pm, Post All three terms are similar, as they all relate to the relationship between the centerline of the Intake lobe and the centerline of the Exhaust lobe. But that doesnt mean high-strung racing engines cant see gains, as well. by mike thompson Tue May 13, 2003 4:03 am, Post Builds More High-RPM Power Increase Piston-Intake Valve Clearance Decrease Piston-Exhaust Valve Clearance EFFECTS OF CHANGING LOBE SEPERATION ANGLE (LSA) Tighten (smaller LSA number) Moves Torque to Lower RPM Increases Maximum Torque Narrow Power band Builds Higher Cylinder Pressure Increase Chance of Engine Knock Increase Cranking Compression It is the angle that separates the intake and exhaust lobe for a particular cylinder, and is measured in camshaft degrees. This has been my long time understanding! If two cams are identical with the exception of lobe separation angle (we'll say 108 and 114) the cam with 114LSA will make more low end power than the 108LSA cam? I don't think your duration figures are too outlandish and with the tight LCA and high lift, it should make some big torque. If you drew a line that divided the intake lobe in half right at the point of maximum lift, then did the same to the exhaust lobe, then measured the distance in cam degrees between the two, that would be the lobe separation angle. The 114 cam will give more low end torque, good midrange, less power up high. It will also give you a smoother idle and probably even better gas mileage. The standard bore block was then stuffed with a 4340 forged steel 4.0-inch crank and 6.125-inch rods, along with a set of flat-top, forged JE pistons. Well, I saw that Erson makes some nice hydraulic rollers with 108 LSAs, and I know that tighter LSAs have more midrange, so I thought they might be worth a try. thanks. Another difference between the two involves the power curve. Also know as Lobe Separation; Lobe Center is simply the distance between the peak opening points on the Intake and Exhaust lobes. 110 for sure. Pick the cam with the valve timing events that fit the engine best, forget about LSA, it is only a result of the events. 110 LSA: On the other hand, 110 LSA is a wider LSA with almost no overlap. 110 LSA: But here, quite surprisingly, you have to face the reduction of the EGR effect due to the 110 LSA. But, you may wonder knowing that a higher valve clearance rate reduces the chance of damaging the valve by the piston. The Idles increasing vacuum improves the idle quality and the engines overall performance. by 3V Performance Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:38 pm, Post i've heard of this being done something about the massive amounts of duration allowes gasses to disipate? Simply put, both 106 and 110 lobe separation angles have many advantages and disadvantages. This causes the engine's street manners and tuning to become fickle. Before we all start suffering from separation anxiety, we need to understand what lobe separation angle actually is and then how it affects your engine. Torsion Beam Vs Multi Link: Who Wins the Battle? Either learn to fix it, or learn to write checks. For your convenience, I am providing a comparison table to give you an overall idea about the comparison. camshaft is a Cranecams F238. When choosing a cam, power gains shouldn't be the only consideration. But, the internal processings are much more complicated. *If you do not have enough vacuum, you can in some cases install a vacuum canister or reservoir, which works by storing the peak vacuum in the reservoir. I've seen a few comments in threads on here that have said things like "going to the 112LC from the 108LC gives 4lbft more torque at the bottom and 2bhp more at the top" yet this would seem to go against what webcam say on. whats the difference in how the car will run. If the cylinder heads are the lungs of an engine, the camshaft is the brain. I would say 114-117* would be a normal 1960's stock cam range and 117* to 120* is more what we see on modern engines. . 1-3 Cognitive impairment is common in both FLE and TLE and adversely impacts quality of life and psychosocial functioning. 110* LSA - lobe separation angle (lobe displacement angle) The +2* means your intake lobe centerline is advanced to obtain a 108* ICL - intake centerline and a 112* ECL - exhaust centerline. A 110-degree lobe separation angle means that the peak opening points of the intake and exhaust lobes are 110 degrees apart. Getting back to the sound of an engine, its no secret that a raucous, lumpy idle is often preferred by street cruisers, regardless of the ill manners and inefficiency of such an engine setup. A cam with a 112 lobe center will pull approximately 16-20" of vacuum, which is good for power brakes. Again this is dependent on your shift rpm and assuming you truly have 14-1 compression. If a street car has smaller lift and duration numbers, they might run 112 or 114. The reduced rate of the EGR effect lowers oxygen circulation in the engines combustion chamber. I'm sorry to disagree with that incredibly well written article, but lobe separation by itself is absolutely freaking meaningless. 110 LSA: On the contrary, it is pretty unpleasant to inform you that the efficient compression rate decreases at 110 LSA. It had a robust powerband with tons of usable torque. How To Properly Replace Ignition CoilsContinue. Average power was also down, but the engine pulled ahead of the 101 cam at 5,400 rpm, picking up 6.5 hp at peak. This comparison highlights that the 106 LSA is a good performer in a few mechanical aspects than the 110 LSA. How do the lobe separations change when you factor in turbocharging? It really comes down to the application. 106 LSA: The overlapping is higher as 106 LSA is comparatively tighter LSA than 110 LSA. . What Are The Wastegate Stuck Open Symptoms? Lobe Separation or Lobe Centers is another way of expressing the Valve Overlap, which was the term formerly used by cam manufacturers before industry standard verbiage changed. On the surface, the camshaft's job is simpleopen and close the valvesbut beyond that topical description, it's one of the most mysterious and misunderstood engine components. Save Share. O onovakind67 Registered Joined Dec 14, 2001 6,242 Posts Valve lift will bear weight in any decision regarding LSA. Higher lift and longer duration profiles add power, but do so at higher engine speeds (especially true of duration). Split duration/lift only helps when your intake/exhaust ratio is low on the exhaust side. This is very critical for manifold vacuum, throttle response, emissions, and gas mileage. 4-Link72, do you run racing gas or pump with 10.5:1 CR? For example, an oval-track small-block that needs to motivate the car off the turns quickly might have a narrow LSA of around 106 degrees, resulting in more overlap. In my opinion, the rougher the idle the better! We use 86b webcams with 1.25 rockers frequently in stroker motors.It's a nice way of getting close to .500" for hot street motors with average heads. indeed, expect low vacuum with anything lower than 110-ish. Depending on the engine combination, the opposite results can occur. 08 Additional components used to build the stroker included a set of Comp hydraulic roller lifters, ARP head studs, and a new oil pump. Lower cylinder pressure is advantageous for your engine. Next up was the 112-degree cam, which actually lost out in peak power slightly to the 120-degree cam, but offered considerably more torque. A cam with a 112lobe center will idle smoother than a cam with a 110lobe center. This table will create a map in your head, and I bet it will make your understanding crystal clear. 4-linked72, what cam are you using that has a 108 LSA? Another related thought to consider when selecting a cam is inches of vacuum for your engine application when deciding upon a Lobe Center. These numbers can vary a few inches one way or the other, depending on several other aftermarket factors and your individual engine specifications, so you may want to check your vacuum once the cam is installed. A cam with 110 lobe center will pull approximately 14-18"of vacuum is borderline for that type of application. So, without wasting any moment, lets find out the answer. 110 degrees on the lobe separation angles. It's wet flow tested at 690cfm. by xstfudonniex Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:21 pm, Post The 402-inch LS2/LS3 hybrid stroker started out with an LS2 aluminum block. While lift and duration are most often discussed when talk turns to cam timing, there is a third variable that has a decided effect on both power and personality. The 112-degree cam produced peak numbers of 567 hp at 6,200 rpm and 540 lb-ft of torque while pumping out 511 lb-ft of torque at 4,000 rpm. The #1 intake lobe centerline is usually between 100 changing just the LSA on my cam wouldnt make a bit of difference on vacuum operated items E ericnova72 More for Less Racer Joined Jan 13, 2007 22,026 Posts When you don't have any overlap, you can't have any wave tuning. by lazaris Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:18 pm, Post Things like idle vacuum, fuel economy, and tuning all factor into picking the right cam. After swimming through the entire article, I hope you are now well aware of the 102 vs 110 lobe separation angle. Hopefully It will do fine in my 2276 mostly drag bug. 110 LSA: On the contrary, at 110 LSA, the engine fails to reach the maximum torque, resulting in a decrease in torque rate. The 234o duration kind of eliminates the RV usage. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. It made 472.4 lb-ft at peak, a 21.5lb-ft disparity from the 101 cam. In the 106 LSA, the engine can reach the maximum torque, making the driving more efficient and saving energy. A wider LSA moves intake- and exhaust-valve events farther apart and creates less overlap, which hurts intake-wave tuning. Mike Magda is a veteran automotive writer with credits in publications such as Racecar Engineering, Hot Rod, Engine Technology International, Motor Trend, Automobile, Automotive Testing Technology and Professional Motorsport World. As you tighten the centers ( 108 ) the same engine will make MORE power through the mide range and top end. It is the DESIGNED events that yield CENTERLINE. Most street cams are ground 4 degrees advanced which boosts bottom end, throttle response, vacume, mpg driveability etc. It affects the amount of valve overlap; that is the brief period of time when both the intake and exhaust valves are open. A 112-114 degree lobe center will have a better idle and produce more vacuum with less overlap. 108 is very tight producing lower vacuum and more of a 2 stroke "punch" powerband. LSA CAM TEST-108 vs 112 vs 120 Richard Holdener 239K subscribers 168K views 2 years ago WESTECH PERFORMANCE GROUP FULL RESULTS-CHANGE ONLY LSA-LS CAM TEST. But you always have a cam card with the engine. 2023 Power Automedia. So, now you, Read More Chevy Transmission Wont Shift Into 3rd: Finding the Main CulpritContinue, While changing the oil on your boats lower unit, you may need to change the drain plug, too. If the intake valve opens too early, it will push the new charge into the intake manifold. Idle vacuum showed a considerable spike to 14.7 in-Hg, likely the difference between being able to run power brakes and a mandatory leg workout. No, it is not even close to the ultimate performance grind most would have picked. Lobe Separation Angle, or LSA, is the number of degrees that separate the peak lift points of the cam's intake and exhaust lobes. Because during the lower units oil change, you can go through the issue that the lower plug, Read More Yamaha Lower Unit Drain Plug Size [Explained Everything]Continue, Among the crucial parts of a vehicle ignition system is the ignition coil, also called a spark coil. Anybody here run a 108 LSA? With the first cam loaded in the engine (the 101 LSA) Westech's Steve Brul made three dyno pulls, the average of which was saved to compare to the next cam. also,, wider will produce a wider and more flat torque curve that doesn't fall off as abruptly up top rpms. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It should still make close to 600hp and 600tq in my 512" stealth headed big block. This cam split the difference between the 101 and 113 down the middle, and in theory should have walked the line between the results of the last two tests in every waywhich it did. Some of the confusion on this subject comes from what the meaning of "bottom" and "top" is to the speaker, I suppose. Well, there can be different reasons for this problem. To reiterate another point, I realize that wider LSAs tend to broaden the power band, but for a car I would like to bracket race a bit, as well as enjoy on the street, I was told that a narrower LSA will help the car accelerate at a faster rate. The second cam would have a rougher idle, produce more torque and would rev quicker. Simply put, the lobe separation angle (LSA) is a measurement of how the intake and exhaust lobes are phased with each other. Lobe separation angle does. Adding an aftermarket cam to an otherwise stock engine can boost output by 40-60 hp (or more) with no other changes (except possibly a valvespring upgrade). We will also custom grind any of the above profiles with a custom lobe center, for an additional $20 dollars. Known as "The Gladiator" around Westech Performance, this Dart SHP blockbased, 370ci, small-block Chevy has made thousands of dyno pulls testing all manner of heads, intakes, cams, and every other crazy thing us magazine folk have coerced Westech's Steve Brul to bolt to it. I probably would have gone with 3.55 gears had I knows better.. 07 Though the CNC-ported heads offered plenty of flow, it was necessary to upgrade the supplied valvesprings. However, the plentiful exhaust overlap (31 degrees) meant there was lots of exhaust dilution at low engine speed and high vacuum. by xstfudonniex Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:24 pm, Post 238/248 duration, 300/310 adv. This overlapping has a direct influence on the oil consumption rate of the engine. 4 Impaired episodic memory and semantic knowledge are common in TLE, although dysexecutive traits . It provides a spark plug with the high voltage needed for combustion. I just bought a 86b Webcam with 112 lobe centers for my 2276. I though my car would have a nice rough idle with the solid cam with a tight LSA I put in my car, its go a slight lope to it, but it pulls hard. More over-simplifications: I bet you won't see a bit of difference. Do you like to go fast? But for small-block Chevys (like the LS applications in this story), the LSA is ground into the cam. The lobe separation angle in a natural car engine conveys a considerable impact, especially regarding the maximum torque. in some cases,, the average torque can equal out. 09 All testing was run through a set of 1 3/4-inch long-tube headers and 3-inch exhaust. The tightest LSA (101) was worth 21.5 lb-ft of torque and a much broader powerbandat the cost of much lower idle vacuum, which would make it more temperamental in a street car. 108* or narrower lobe separation angle (LSA) is "Narrow" and 114* or wider (up to 117* or 120* for stock cams) is "Wide" , with 110 to 112* being the "normal" hot-rod cam. Fixing the ignition coils is essential when you experience issues like engine misfire and the Check Engine light that wont go off. It also depends on what the vehicle will be used for and if economy and vacuum are important. But i would nt go any wider than 110.
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